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NFS Police H.Q. Forums > Real Car Talk > What car do you drive?


Posted by: BrabusAMG Aug 19 2016, 01:36 AM
I believe there was a topic like this on the old NFS Police HQ, back when I didn't have my own car.

I finally managed to get a car yesterday; I've spent today washing and cleaning it before its first use. I'm pleased to say it's a car I've always wanted biggrin.png.

That got me thinking; what do the rest of you drive? You don't need to upload pictures; just say what it is if you like.

I once had a NZ-built 1990 Mitsubishi Lancer GL in Sarajevo White, with a 1300 cc four-pot and a 5-speed manual gearbox. It was a pretty good car actually. My current car has 50% more cylinders and twice the engine size (but only 4 speeds). It's a dream to drive and I love it biggrin.png. It has a few dents and scratches, but the price was good and I will be doing more work to it.

Here's a picture taken this evening:

Posted by: XJ220 Aug 19 2016, 06:07 AM
Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a 2.6 W201 over here. 4 speed means automatic? With an inline 6 engine? Not bad. But the transmission would make it a no-go for me tongue.png

I've got an Audi 80 Avant 2.6E. 5 speed manual gearbox, V6, FWD. Lots of space. Needs some work, like about every car of its age (it's from late '93).

Posted by: NFS Police Force Aug 19 2016, 11:49 AM
Nice car .Here in the U.S that would be a rich man car smile.png.I had a Durango .I put all my money into that car. It was a sweet. It was blue it had the sport pack . But with my medical problem I got into a crash sad.png I lost my car . Then I lost my job do to my medical problem. But I got disability now. I do have some money coming in to keep me going . But that suv saved my life and I had God on my side watching out for me . smile.png I am glad I have you all to . This site keep me going everyday and family to . biggrin.png

Posted by: BrabusAMG Aug 19 2016, 07:32 PM
Yes, it's an auto. I've never really been keen on autos, but it's nearly impossible to find a manual Mercedes here. Unlike in Europe, people in NZ don't generally buy manuals. Plus, I live near a busy tourist town. A manual makes things complicated in town, especially if you stall.

Luckily, I've never had a crash before. I'd hate to think what would've happened in the Lancer. It had seat belts, but I don't know if it had any other safety feature. At least I have a safe car now smile.png.

W201s were quite popular here a while ago. I'm surprised that the 2.6 is so rare in Germany; I've seen more of the 2.6 than the 2.3. The 2.0 is still the most common, but I didn't want an under-powered car, especially since I live in the Southern Alps foothills. It has a great turning circle though biggrin.png.

Despite the number of American SUVs on our roads, I don't think I've ever seen a Durango. They prefer Jeeps and Chevs here.

Posted by: Paul Spain Aug 19 2016, 07:43 PM
I never could drive a stick so it has to be auto. I did have a silver 2005 Ford Taurus but I lost it in a crash. I hope to get a vehicle again soon now that I'm working and making good money but it seems just when I get close to $800.00 or so bucks bills I'd set aside to get that catch up and they are the type you can't skip (power,water,gas,and my court related charges) And then I'm back down to $400.00-$500.00 before I know it. sad.png .

Posted by: XJ220 Aug 20 2016, 03:05 AM
I could never drive an automatic. I dislike those gearboxes just like any of those driver assists. I drive my car, not the other way around sleep.png

Generally, Germans and I think most Europeans prefer mid-size engines. Likely due to taxes which are based on displacement and ecological classification (at least in Germany). A W201 2.6 would have been too expensive for what it offers (incl. 'status', considering its nickname Baby-Benz), a W124 220E likely being a more efficient option.

My car also was rarely ordered with either of the V6 engines. Cool because it's a bit more unique that way, but it also makes spare-parts more expensive. But that's worth it biggrin.png

Posted by: slego9 Aug 20 2016, 05:40 PM
I don't even have a license... in 8 months hopefuly....

Posted by: BrabusAMG Aug 20 2016, 06:30 PM
What's the driving age in NS? Over here it's 16 now, but I got my licence at 15; just before the law changed. We have 3 licence stages here: Learner, Restricted, Full. It takes at least 18 months to get from start to finish (and that's the legal minimum).

I much prefer manuals on open roads, but I find an auto very useful in town. I'm getting used to it; since I've always driven manuals.

The only vehicle-specific taxes we have are Road User Charges applied to diesel vehicles. Despite that, diesels are still cheaper to run because petrol is always more expensive. Big engines are becoming less popular only because they're not fuel-efficient; especially when 95-octane is around $2 per litre. The worst part? That's the highest octane you can get outside the biggest cities!

You know, I looked at a '93 Audi 80 2.6E some time ago; when I was still searching. It was saloon and had an automatic. The seats were quite comfy smile.png.

Posted by: XJ220 Aug 21 2016, 03:17 AM
Did it have remote locks? Mine does. Infrared remote (as opposed to today's radio controls) which I still find awesome considering the car's age biggrin.png

Interesting to see that you pay about as much for fuel as we do. That's of course another reason for wanting smaller engines, but depending on how much you drive per year etc., the taxes and probably insurance costs can have the bigger impact. Also, taxes on Diesel cars are MUCH higher (around twice as high), while a liter of Diesel costs around 1 Euro currently (1,55 NZD / 1,13 USD).

You may obtain your license in Germany at 17. That's the so-called accompanied driving, an adult with license and a certain amount of driving experience has to be with you all the time until you turn 18. Then there are two years of probation or probation until you're 21, whichever lasts longer. Seems driving is more restricted in the country of the Autobahn happy.png

I also find manuals to be useful in town. Especially in comparison to old auto transmissions, you can launch off the traffic lights much quicker (can be reasonably useful, I swear!)

Posted by: slego9 Aug 21 2016, 07:40 AM
well.... the law changes in 2017 when I am getting my license so I will use that system.

you can get your learners at 16 then you can get your newly licensed License after taking a driving and writen test, you can take this test 12 months after you get your learners (6 months if you take drivers ed). 6 months after that you can get your Restricted License 12 months after you get your restricted license you can get your full license after taking a defensive driving course.

its an extremely stupid and confusing system.

Posted by: BoxCarRacer Aug 21 2016, 07:40 PM
Congrats on the new car!

I bought a Subaru Impreza 2.5i hatch as my first car back in 2010 when I started my job. We don't get much snow here in Toronto anymore, but when we do, it's super fun!

Posted by: BrabusAMG Aug 22 2016, 02:16 AM
Thanks! happy.png

I see quite a few of those Imprezas around here too; they're very useful for the 5 ski fields in my region. They look rather smart too cool.png. Unfortunately, we haven't had much snow here either. The ski fields had to open much later than usual. They'll probably have to close earlier too, which will be bad for the local economy.


@ slego9:

That system is almost identical to ours. You can get your Learner Licence here at 16 after a written test (called a theory test). After 6 months, you can upgrade to a Restricted Licence after passing a practical test (actual driving). 6 months is rather optimistic; it took me 5 years. On a Restricted, you can drive on your own but not before 5 AM or after 10 PM. You can't take passengers unless a fully licensed driver is with you; like on a Learner's.

After 6 months on your Restricted, you can take a defensive driving course. If you do, you only need to wait another 6 months (instead of 12) to go for a Full Licence. In my area, they hold courses at the Highlands racing circuit biggrin.png.


@ Nils:

I'm not surprised at those restrictions. After all, you can't have inexperienced young drivers travelling at 130+ on the autobahn! How many people already die every day on those things? Here, insurance premiums are more expensive if you're under 25; especially if your car is turbocharged or bigger than 2.5 Litres (or worse, both: think Skyline).

PS: I don't remember anything about the Audi's locks.

Posted by: XJ220 Aug 22 2016, 07:35 AM
QUOTE (BrabusAMG @ Aug 22 2016, 12:16 PM)
After all, you can't have inexperienced young drivers travelling at 130+ on the autobahn!  How many people already die every day on those things?

Less than 1.0. High speeds do not necessarily equal high risk.

A Skyline might be more expensive to insure because of its rarity, I suppose. Oh man, too many factors influencing this bill. Taxes are way less complicated tongue.png

@ BoxCarRacer
That's a nice ride, and very suited to the conditions you may encounter, eh? biggrin.png Though I very much like my ride's space. I will probably never switch to anything else than a wagon for primary car.

Posted by: BrabusAMG Aug 22 2016, 03:35 PM
I must've forgotten that Germans are better drivers than Kiwis. Put an autobahn here and you might as well put another 0 on the road death toll now. The German police obviously enforce more than just speed and alcohol.

The Skyline GT-R is certainly rare, but searching for a Nissan Skyline on Trade Me turns up over 500 listings. It's one of the most popular fast saloons in this country.

Posted by: XJ220 Aug 23 2016, 07:00 AM
In turn I keep forgetting there are non GT-R Skylines biggrin.png Though all of them are rare over here.

Are highways a mandatory exercise in your driving schools? Here they are, spent a few hours one day covering ca. 300 kilometres / 190 miles, top-speed was around 180 kph / 110 mph with the scholar being expected to drive that fast when reasonable and remain concentrated and in control. Not sure how much of an extra treatment highways and motorways receive in other countries, esp. considering the general (lame tongue.png) speed limits.

Posted by: Paul Spain Aug 23 2016, 11:55 AM
QUOTE (BrabusAMG @ Aug 22 2016, 11:35 PM)
I must've forgotten that Germans are better drivers than Kiwis. Put an autobahn here and you might as well put another 0 on the road death toll now. The German police obviously enforce more than just speed and alcohol.

The Skyline GT-R is certainly rare, but searching for a Nissan Skyline on Trade Me turns up over 500 listings. It's one of the most popular fast saloons in this country.

Germans do mostly everything better LOL but yeah..Not to mention running out of gas on the Autobahn is illeagal too..The ADAC is rapidly ready to respond should this happen but I don't know if the polizei accompany them to give out a ticket for this offense.

Posted by: BrabusAMG Aug 23 2016, 07:14 PM
QUOTE (XJ220 @ Aug 24 2016, 03:00 AM)
In turn I keep forgetting there are non GT-R Skylines biggrin.png Though all of them are rare over here.

Are highways a mandatory exercise in your driving schools? Here they are, spent a few hours one day covering ca. 300 kilometres / 190 miles, top-speed was around 180 kph / 110 mph with the scholar being expected to drive that fast when reasonable and remain concentrated and in control. Not sure how much of an extra treatment highways and motorways receive in other countries, esp. considering the general (lame tongue.png) speed limits.

Open-road driving is tested during the licence tests, but we never cover those distances. We do have driving schools and tutors and I guess lessons can be as long as you want, but they're not compulsory huh.png. The Restricted Licence Practical Test takes 45 minutes, even though it was recently made more strict. I only had to do about 5 minutes on the open road, which is ridiculous, really, considering how much of New Zealand is open road.

Over here the maximum speed limit is 100 km/h (practically a crawl, eh? laugh.png), although most kiwi drivers do 105 to 110 and then complain when they get ticketed. The police only have a 4 km/h tolerance. Increasing the speed limit isn't a good idea on most State Highways, because the roads are often windy and made of tar seal. Asphalt is only used in and around built-up areas; and even then only in certain places.

Posted by: XJ220 Aug 24 2016, 07:33 AM
QUOTE (Paul Spain)
Germans do mostly everything better LOL but yeah..Not to mention running out of gas on the Autobahn is illeagal too..The ADAC is rapidly ready to respond should this happen but I don't know if the polizei accompany them to give out a ticket for this offense.

You could actually even earn some 'points' in the national register. When your account is full, your license will be revoked. Makes sense. Running out of fuel is a rather stupid thing to happen (unless something's broken). I've even got a spare canister in my trunk, but never needed it and probably never will.

QUOTE (BrabusAMG)
Open-road driving is tested during the licence tests, but we never cover those distances.  We do have driving schools and tutors and I guess lessons can be as long as you want, but they're not compulsory huh.png.  The Restricted Licence Practical Test takes 45 minutes, even though it was recently made more strict.  I only had to do about 5 minutes on the open road, which is ridiculous, really, considering how much of New Zealand is open road.

Interesting. Not all of this stuff is part of the practical test, but an instructor should not let you apply for the test if you're really not good enough in either of the areas - Autobahn, country roads or city driving including relatively precise parking. And the right of way.

QUOTE (BrabusAMG)
Over here the maximum speed limit is 100 km/h (practically a crawl, eh? laugh.png), although most kiwi drivers do 105 to 110 and then complain when they get ticketed.  The police only have a 4 km/h tolerance.  Increasing the speed limit isn't a good idea on most State Highways, because the roads are often windy and made of tar seal.  Asphalt is only used in and around built-up areas; and even then only in certain places.

Not just practically. Wasting all that potential of your new ride wink.png I am even going to get speed index V winter tires this year so I do not have drive slower than necessary (we do not get Canadian winters, usually). Exceeding the speed limit by roughly 10 kph is expected over here, too happy.png

Posted by: BrabusAMG Aug 24 2016, 10:38 PM
We have a demerit points system too. If you get 100 within 2 years, you lose your licence for 3 months. After that, you have to apply for a new one. Penalties can be rather pathetic here. It seems like the more dangerous something is, the less you get fined for it. Parking in a disabled-only space: $150. Speeding: $120-ish. Driving while using a phone: $80. Most traffic offences earn 20 to 35 points. What's the police's attitude to speeding in your country?

We don't get Canadian winters either, but the roads can get icy. Trouble is, you can't get the flash studded tyres that you get in Europe.

Posted by: XJ220 Aug 25 2016, 07:24 AM
The rules regarding studded tires (had to look that one up to make sure they are what we call 'Spikes') are not as uniform across Europe as you might think. In Germany, they were banned way before I was born with few exceptions.

The attitude towards speeding is somewhat ambivalent. Kind of often, you get the impression that speed traps are being used as a means of generating income for counties. Especially the static speed traps are pretty rare in rather rich Bavaria and much more common in some other federal states.

On the other side, fines are pretty low in comparison to other European countries as far as I am aware. Up to an exceeding of ca. 20 kph (after the tolerance of at least 3 kph has been subtracted) you pay 30 Euros or less. Then comes a serious bump with fines doubling, points being earned and immediate, temporal loss of your license becoming more and more likely. You'll lose it one to three months, beyond that you'll have to pass the so called 'idiot test' and as far as I can tell it's pretty unlikely you'll ever be allowed to drive a car again. Doesn't stop some people from doing so, though.

So, like I said, exceeding the limit by ca. 10 kph is common practice, not too rarely even more. Though speedos tend to display around 5 kph than you're actually doing, minus the 3 kph or so tolerance and offences can quickly become negligible unless you really exaggerate things.

Edit: just gave my car a spin today, after I had my tires changed to proper ones so I could finally see where the horsepower gets me. 222 kph. Subtract 5 for inaccuracy. 217 kph. Nice biggrin.png

Posted by: BrabusAMG Oct 8 2016, 12:37 AM
It must be nice to live in a country where you don't lose your licence for that biggrin.png.

Over here, the police put speed camera vans (or patrol cars) at the bottom of a hill or on a long straight; i.e. places where nobody crashes but where they're likely to get people doing 5+ km/h over the limit dry.png. For some reason, high-crash-risk zones never get the same treatment; they just get signs saying "Slow Down: High Crash Rate" huh.png.

Posted by: XJ220 Oct 8 2016, 05:22 AM
At least these tactics are shared between NZ and Germany biggrin.png

Posted by: Paul Spain Oct 8 2016, 07:42 PM
Here it's common to go 5 MPH over the limit, Like in 55 zones everyone goes 60, Police is fine with this but 10 over and they might stop you, At the very least they will start to follow you around to see what you're up to for going 10 over.

Posted by: XJ220 Oct 9 2016, 04:13 AM
Now I'm curious. What can one be up to with 10 mph over? A street race? A getaway?

Posted by: BrabusAMG Oct 9 2016, 01:33 PM
The faster you go, the bigger the mess. That's the message that the NZ Transport Agency tries to get across with their TV ads. They have a point. At least it's better than the "Speed Kills" message.

In your countries, do the police pull you over for things like following too closely, not indicating and driving erratically? Here they usually don't; unless you're speeding as well. Often, the police drive as badly as everyone else.

Posted by: XJ220 Oct 10 2016, 07:48 AM
You may earn a ticket for following too closely, but it's not too common. I think you're most likely to be pulled over for (suspected) DUI. And excessive speeding, of course.

Posted by: BoxCarRacer Oct 12 2016, 11:04 AM
QUOTE (XJ220 @ Aug 23 2016, 10:00 AM)
In turn I keep forgetting there are non GT-R Skylines biggrin.png Though all of them are rare over here.

Are highways a mandatory exercise in your driving schools? Here they are, spent a few hours one day covering ca. 300 kilometres / 190 miles, top-speed was around 180 kph / 110 mph with the scholar being expected to drive that fast when reasonable and remain concentrated and in control. Not sure how much of an extra treatment highways and motorways receive in other countries, esp. considering the general (lame tongue.png) speed limits.

Driving tests here are a huge joke...it's sad. Our tests last about 15 minutes.

From what I can recall, this was my route to get my full license loool

https://goo.gl/maps/MQ8yHaFXtD72

Posted by: NFS Police Force Oct 12 2016, 12:20 PM
LOL we had a drive ed teacher . This girl did not see the stop sign .He made here get out of the car and say sorry to the stop sign .He was a cool dude . He loved the Wilson .He had me and my bro and then my sisters and he loved my sisters . We went to go see him and he was in a leg cast and a arm cast . laugh.png But he was still doing drive ed . We did find out that he did die he was a heavy man . sad.png

Posted by: XJ220 Oct 13 2016, 07:36 AM
QUOTE (BoxCarRacer @ Oct 12 2016, 09:04 PM)
Driving tests here are a huge joke...it's sad. Our tests last about 15 minutes.

From what I can recall, this was my route to get my full license loool

https://goo.gl/maps/MQ8yHaFXtD72

Are there any mandatory elements the test must contain? Here you'll have to park the car up to three times with limited corrections allowed, find a spot where you can safely turn the other way etc. and there's big attention on the right of way. The test lasts 45 minutes. Which can feel much longer biggrin.png

Your route on the other hand looks rather... relaxed?

Posted by: BoxCarRacer Oct 13 2016, 04:47 PM
QUOTE (XJ220 @ Oct 13 2016, 10:36 AM)
QUOTE (BoxCarRacer @ Oct 12 2016, 09:04 PM)
Driving tests here are a huge joke...it's sad. Our tests last about 15 minutes.

From what I can recall, this was my route to get my full license loool

https://goo.gl/maps/MQ8yHaFXtD72

Are there any mandatory elements the test must contain? Here you'll have to park the car up to three times with limited corrections allowed, find a spot where you can safely turn the other way etc. and there's big attention on the right of way. The test lasts 45 minutes. Which can feel much longer biggrin.png

Your route on the other hand looks rather... relaxed?

It's all basic stuff... parallel parking, 3-point turn, emergency stop (which is just safely pulling over and putting on 4-way flashers LOL).

My highway portion was just the examiner telling me to do a couple lane changes!!

Our roads aren't safe. Dash cameras have become really popular here over the past few years. Here's some guy I captured driving up the wrong side of the road last month

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJESnvhfdWY

Posted by: BrabusAMG Oct 14 2016, 01:38 AM
Our tests are 45 minutes too, but our roads still aren't safe. Mind you, that's because the bad drivers are older people who got their licences before the new rules were introduced.

Dash cams are getting popular here too. I am definitely getting one for my car, just in case. My dad had one in his old work van (it's now in his car). Once, while travelling on the highway (which is a 2-lane rural road here), someone in an oncoming car (a yellow Honda Jazz) turned right on an intersection right in front of him, nearly causing him to hit the traffic island! The driver was reported to the police and was charged.

I'm surprised that Toronto has such empty roads. Christchurch (population 380,000) is always busy during the day. Mind you, Toronto probably didn't have an earthquake 6 years ago that broke the roads (which still haven't been completely fixed).

Posted by: XJ220 Oct 14 2016, 08:03 AM
QUOTE (BoxCarRacer @ Oct 14 2016, 02:47 AM)
It's all basic stuff... parallel parking, 3-point turn, emergency stop (which is just safely pulling over and putting on 4-way flashers LOL).

My highway portion was just the examiner telling me to do a couple lane changes!!

Our roads aren't safe. Dash cameras have become really popular here over the past few years. Here's some guy I captured driving up the wrong side of the road last month

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJESnvhfdWY

Bear with that guy, he's probably British biggrin.png

Though, well, I think the basic stuff is okay? Parking, right of way etc. are all basic yet fundamental. And on highways, what could be more important than proper lane-changing?

Either way, the stuff you and Max experienced can happen here just as well. There are always enough morons around.

On the other hand, my instructor told me some of his students failed the practical test because they didn't pass the emergency braking (30 kph steady, then on signal slam the clutch and brake). That's pretty lolwut.

Posted by: BrabusAMG Oct 25 2016, 03:59 PM
QUOTE (XJ220 @ Oct 15 2016, 05:03 AM)
Bear with that guy, he's probably British biggrin.png

Or Australian tongue.png. Over here, they cause more accidents than foreigners from any other country, even though they drive on the same side of the road as we do. Interestingly, Germans come second in those stats huh.png, although the Chinese get the most attention.

Emergency braking wasn't tested in the practical test here, although I have been taught how to do it (at 50 km/h too).

Posted by: XJ220 Oct 26 2016, 07:14 AM
QUOTE (BrabusAMG @ Oct 26 2016, 01:59 AM)
Or Australian tongue.png. Over here, they cause more accidents than foreigners from any other country, even though they drive on the same side of the road as we do. Interestingly, Germans come second in those stats huh.png, although the Chinese get the most attention.

Probably because we're not used to driving so slowly biggrin.png

Posted by: BrabusAMG Oct 29 2016, 09:19 PM
Especially when you're trying to drive a campervan on the left while trying to look at the scenery on https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-44.9857696,168.9003053,3611m/data=!3m1!1e3. I've been on it a few times (including twice today); the switchbacks at the end drop 400 metres in altitude. The road also happens to be the highest main road in New Zealand and I think it's the most spectacular. The views on the summit are amazing.

Posted by: XJ220 Oct 30 2016, 03:44 AM
That indeed looks like a challenging road. Could make for a nice rally stage smile.png

Posted by: BrabusAMG Oct 30 2016, 01:38 PM
The recommended speed signs on those last corners go as low as 15 km/h. Those low speeds are needed.

There was a rally stage near there once. It wasn't on that particular road, but it was on a road that comes off it (go north-east on that map until you get to a place called "Cardrona"). The road goes to the Snow Farm (a cross-country ski field) and the Southern Hemisphere Proving Grounds (where new cars and tyres are tested in our winter). The rally was called "Race to the Sky" and it was our equivalent of Pikes Peak.

Unfortunately it is no longer going, because after a new owner set it up again, the land owners decided to increase their charges and reduce the lease period. Substantially dry.png. The new owner also built a tarmac racing circuit in nearby Cromwell. An Australian GT Championship stage will be held there in a couple of weeks.

Posted by: Paul Spain Oct 31 2016, 01:29 AM
My car I have now.

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Posted by: BrabusAMG Nov 1 2016, 02:33 PM
Nice! Anything with an "S" trim label can't be a bad choice biggrin.png.

Is that bumper sticker from the dealer? I find that unusual, because here they just put a plastic frame around the number plate. I guess that's not allowed where you are.

On a side note, I see that fences are rare in your part of the world. It's the opposite here. Oh, and those two pickups look like the same model. Are they?

Posted by: Paul Spain Nov 1 2016, 09:32 PM
QUOTE (BrabusAMG @ Nov 1 2016, 10:33 PM)
Nice! Anything with an "S" trim label can't be a bad choice biggrin.png.

Is that bumper sticker from the dealer? I find that unusual, because here they just put a plastic frame around the number plate. I guess that's not allowed where you are.

On a side note, I see that fences are rare in your part of the world. It's the opposite here. Oh, and those two pickups look like the same model. Are they?

I don't know if the trucks are the same kind or not, Never paid attention to them LOL, As for the sticker, Most car lots do it that way, I even see them on some police cars too but some have a plate frame too, All up to the dealer how they mark their vehicles for sale.

Fences aren't rare here LOL, I just don't wanna spend the money to build one, My property actually has a old rotting away wood fence around it but I'm not gonna bother wasting the money to repair it. We have a few stupid laws here but far as I know no law saying you MUST have a fence. they constantly complain to me about my 4 pine trees along my front and my 1st driveway (I have have 2 driveways here LOL) though in the end I win, Way I see it is it's not the city's place to tell people how neat to keep their trees unless they are impeading onto the other neighbors or sidewalks, I win here too because I have NO sidewalk either tongue.png laugh.png. Plus they shield and protect my car and front of my house so I'll never cut them or trim them.

OLD pic Google has from when I had a 2000 Buick Lesabre, Trees are still the same way to this day despite all the city officials raising a royal hell for me to trim them up sleep.png .



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Posted by: UnumProvident101 Nov 2 2016, 12:35 PM
QUOTE (Paul Spain @ Oct 31 2016, 05:29 AM)
My car I have now.

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My dad has the 2015 version of this car but it is the S model and the color of the car is red

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